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June 14, 2012
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:iconpoly-m:
:icontrololoplz:

For those who don't know what Tropes VS Women is, Google is your friend.

Btw, don't hesitate to save this, share, repost, link anywhere you want.
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:icondrakevagabond:
~Drakevagabond Apr 30, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
$160,000 ladies and gentlemen
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:iconyoudoos:
Correction, $158,922 for one rather half assed, one sided video which has been thoroughly argued by people who did it for free. Seriously, by the time she releases the rest of her videos the ice caps will have melted and all her supporters will have either moved on or shot themselves out of shame. I never thought 'victim' was a profession until I discovered Anita Sarkeesian.
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:icondrakevagabond:
~Drakevagabond May 5, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I round up
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:iconel-drago-800:
Anita: If it exists, its sexist.
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:iconpoly-m:
~poly-m Apr 29, 2013  Professional Filmographer
Nailed it.
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:iconozu-kenji:
~Ozu-Kenji Mar 19, 2013  Professional Filmographer
I actually read her thesis. Accordingly she states that women can't be portrayed as strong, decisicive or display any sort of leadership skill and having an emotional handle on things is because these women are only trying to emulate themselves as men.

So by her logic, the perfectly feminist game must have no male or female characters. Hmmm... well the only game on my mind like that is Tetri...
...oh...
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:iconshitsuren-chama:
No, what she's trying to say is: girls can be strong, and be good characters, and still be feminine.

Like, a lady character doesn't have to be a hard-ass militant woman with a cropped haircut, a harsh attitude, and strictly-policed emotions to be 'strong,' but that's the popular trope that people will often default to.

They think that the best way to make a female character 'strong' is by assigning her distinctly masculine traits. But, there is a much better way to do this.

If you just give a normal female character or a female protagonist the chance to go through actual character development-- trials and obstacles to overcome so that she might grow as a person (without relying on her sexuality as a weapon/to draw appeal, but instead using her brain or her skills and abilities)-- if you just give a normal female character some chance to develop, then it'd show her strengths in that way.

This way, portrays her as a human being who can grow and change and become stronger, instead of portraying her as a trophy, fan service, love interest, damsel in distress, etc..

Portal and Portal 2 are excellent examples feminist games, and they're pretty cheap if you bought them over in Steam. I would definitely recommend playing them, if you have some free time. :)
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:iconozu-kenji:
~Ozu-Kenji Mar 24, 2013  Professional Filmographer
I am sorry I have to disagree with you there. While I do agree with you in regards to how a female character should be treated, the main issue isn't feminist characters and tropes in gaming. The main issue is Anita herself. She isn't facing the problem in a rational manner nor is she properly researching the form of media that she criticizes. The biggest problem of all is that she is VERY prone to hypocrisy, which is sadly a very big problem in the feminist movement. What one feminist would consider liberating, the other would see as oppressive.

It has reached a point where there isn't any grounding for Anita. It seems almost that instead of setting up a set of principles for herself, she will use any feminist principle that is convenient for her at that particular time, if it means to show what she is going up against as sexist and offensive. One moment she will complain that a female character is too butch. The other she will complain that the female is too sexualized. And yes, while the Portal games (hell, I would even go so far as to say the whole Valve library, especially the Half Life 2 games) are excellent examples, I have seen feminists like Anita flip their fudge over things like how Chell now wears her jumpsuit top around her waist. With polarizing opinions of course. So where does one draw the line.

All in all, my problem is not that she is a feminist or wants to have women portrayed tastefully in games. There is a need for that (hell, I would argue that there is even a need to portray men more tastefully as well). My problem is that she set out with a certain objective and set herself as the face of feminism in gaming... and has failed spectacularly in both fronts.
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:iconshitsuren-chama:
I don't understand. Can you please elaborate on some of your points? I don't know in which ways she's been hypocritical. If you could provide some examples with sources displaying her hypocrast, I'd be willing to look at them? Just, without some clear examples to back up what you're saying, it looks a lot like.. you just dislike her because she's her, and I'll need more than that? Especially with the "What one feminist would consider liberating, the other would see as oppressive" bit, because, most people seem to be pretty much on the same page? Like, I understand that people learn more as time goes on, and they change their opinions on things, and things that they once saw as being liberating could now be seen as oppressive, etc... but, yeah, you're generalizing things way too much. If you were willing to explain things more clearly, I'm more than willing to hear what you have to say.

But, to me, the things she was saying make a whole lotta sense. What I took away from it was that it's not about characters being too 'butch' or too sexualized, you can't think in black and white like that. It's the terms under which they're "butched" or sexualized that you have to consider. And that's kinda the whole point in thinking in a more feminist way. "Is this character sexualized because she's asserting her independence? Or is she sexualized purely for fan-service? Is this character being 'butched' up because we're trying to assert that being strong automatically means being more masculine? Or is this simply the character's personality? Is this character being written off as a love interest with pretty much no character development otherwise? Or is she a really good character, and love just happens to be another part of her life, just like any other well-rounded person?"

But, see, I don't understand how you've decided she's failed? Like, I understand you have a very negative opinion of her, but you're just not really providing enough supporting facts to make your opinion seem valid? I feel like her videos provide a lot of information, they're very clearly laid out, each videos objective is clearly explained and with a lot of examples and sources, etc.. But, if you were willing to explain a bit more on how you feel she's failed, I'd be willing to listen to it.
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:iconozu-kenji:
~Ozu-Kenji Mar 26, 2013  Professional Filmographer
Of course I am generalizing! I am not here to discuss in great length and detail the good, the bad and the ugly of Anita, tropes, gaming and feminism. I came here to read a comic I found funny and poignant, I gave my opinion over the issue. End of story. You gave your opinion. I gave you my opinion of your opinion. Now to you this has become serious enough that I need to provide sources, quotes, links and give extensive explanations of how I came to these conclusions.

I am not going to do that. You may call me a hack, retard, moron, chauvinistic, misogynist or whatever the hell you want to make yourself feel better, but I am not going to drag myself into an eternal comment war.

I will end with this: I don't think Anita is a bad person, nor do I think her message is lacking in credance. I just think she needs to do a better job and be more intelligent about it. In the end, her show IS an opinion piece, and therefore anyone should be allowed to disagree with it.
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